Should game developers be allowed to vote for their own games?
#1
On the Lemon database developers of both new commercial games as well as old ones and free games, are rating their own games:
https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=82143
Is that a good thing? I and others have argued that it's a conflict of interest. There were quite a few supporters of developer voting, but they couldn't give any good arguments why it should be allowed. Considering what they are saying their arguments are a bit like this:

- it should be allowed because it makes developers feel better about themselves or their game.
- it should be allowed for certain developers only.

The topic was closed with an executive decision from the owner that yes it's allowed, but we can still discuss it here.
Do not get personal like on Lemon though ("but you voted/commented X for game Y) those are not arguments.
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#2
I'll say the same as I said "over there", which is: I don't see the usefulness of a game developer to vote on his own game in a situation like this. If it were me, I'd want to see what others thought of my game and how they feel it may rank against other games on the system. This would be useful to me, which I would use when working on my next project.

To vote on your own game is either to simply cater to your own ego or to influence people to buy your game, if it were a commercial release. In either case, I see this is a conflict of interest and makes me question said person's ethics. For me, this also goes not just for game developers, but publishers/producers who sell these games. Having the same person rating or reviewing the game or software who's also selling it is definitely a conflict of interest to me and I cannot trust such people's opinions.

Those are my thoughts on the matter.
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#3
Naturally people should never rate their own creations because they are biased. Their vote is unfair by definition. I don't see why it even requires discussion, unless people just enjoy arguing with eachother.
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#4
The real sad thing that I see is that people these days can't even share their opinions on any subject without it turning into an argument. So much for freedom of speech and the right to having your own opinion that differs from the noisy minority. Why can't we just say, "Yes, I agree..." or "No, I don't agree...." without someone taking it as a personal attack? Many people using social media now act like they've not progressed past the mental development of a ten-year-old.

I'm secure enough to admit my opinion on this subject (in particular) may not be "right", but its how I feel about it. I don't need anyone else to agree with me and I'm not so insecure to read someone else's opinion that doesn't. In fact, I welcome anyone else who sees the matter in a different light from mine, as I may just learn something new from it.

But anyway..... back to the subject at hand.
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#5
(09-01-2023, 03:31 PM)�sysop Wrote: The real sad thing that I see is that people these days can't even share their opinions on any subject without it turning into an argument.� So much for freedom of speech and the right to having your own opinion that differs from the noisy minority.� Why can't we just say, "Yes, I agree..." or "No, I don't agree...." without someone taking it as a personal attack?� Many people using social media now act like they've not progressed past the mental development of a ten-year-old.
I'm secure enough to admit my opinion on this subject (in particular) may not be "right", but its how I feel about it.� I don't need anyone else to agree with me and I'm not so insecure to read someone else's opinion that doesn't.� In fact, I welcome anyone else who sees the matter in a different light from mine, as I may just learn something new from it.
But anyway..... back to the subject at hand.

EXCELLENT POINT !
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#6
(08-30-2023, 01:09 PM)�TheHighlander Wrote: Naturally people should never rate their own creations because they are biased. Their vote is unfair by definition. I don't see why it even requires discussion, unless people just enjoy arguing with eachother.

(08-30-2023, 02:49 AM)sysop Wrote: I'll say the same as I said "over there", which is: I don't see the usefulness of a game developer to vote on his own game in a situation like this.� If it were me, I'd want to see what others thought of my game and how they feel it may rank against other games on the system.� This would be useful to me, which I would use when working on my next project.�

To vote on your own game is either to simply cater to your own ego or to influence people to buy your game, if it were a commercial release. In either case, I see this is a conflict of interest and makes me question said person's ethics.� For me, this also goes not just for game developers, but� publishers/producers who sell these games.� Having the same person rating or reviewing the game or software who's also selling it is definitely a conflict of interest to me and I cannot trust such people's opinions.

Those are my thoughts on the matter.
I agree with both of these ideas, a related conflict of interest is when someone or a group deliberately down votes a game to interject bias.

A group recently released a broken version of my game "Arkanoid air DOH" as a bad crack on�CSDB that ruined the game and destroyed the audio layer.

Here's the video of the actual game from Arok Party 2023 running in the C64 Atari 2600 emulator with three types of interesting petscii effect and pleasant sound by contrast:
https://youtu.be/ssBlBAzIw_g

Another constructive�response if a game is attacked as unplayable and not a game�is to release a play through video with information about�the retro history and development�of the game:
(15) Fluid City phat SID bassline Game Challenge! - Commodore 64 - Lemon64 - Commodore 64
�
Then retro fans can decide for themselves without someone elses bias influencing.



.prg   arkanoid-air-doh.prg (Size: 29.33 KB / Downloads: 1)
.prg   fluidcty.prg (Size: 29.41 KB / Downloads: 1)
.prg   fluildctyb.prg (Size: 29.41 KB / Downloads: 1)

It's more difficult with Arkanoid Air DOH because the fake version was downloader 7:1 over the real software obfuscating the release version and fooling people�like a bad Chat GPT bot.�

The Atari 2600 version which is the same binary without the emulator can also be downloaded from Arok Party 2023.
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#7
(09-29-2023, 05:56 PM)MrSQL Wrote: I agree with both of these ideas, a related conflict of interest is when someone or a group deliberately down votes a game to interject bias.
....
Then retro fans can decide for themselves without someone elses bias influencing.

Yes, I think it's pretty mean spirited when this occurs, as well. I consider this bullying, and I never cared for bullies.  As for your games, I'll try and make time tonight to try them on my real NTSC C128. Thanks!
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#8
I've split the thread to help maintain focus.
[-] The following 1 user Likes sysop's post:
  â€¢ NM156
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#9
The latest example:

   
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#10
I think I discovered the original self voting/upvoter duo, the West brothers...

https://www.lemon64.com/games/list.php?l...ony%20West

https://www.lemon64.com/games/list.php?l...her%20West

Look at the dates, in many cases they were even the first votes on their games.
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